I hate adults!!! A tale of an Eagle Project.

I should say I hate a specific type of adult that I seem to keep come across and Ask Andy seems to be asked tons of questions about each time he doles out advice.  What type of adult is it that I hate?  I hate adults that expect a program run by boys to fit their perfect mold and has unrealistic expectations of how things are supposed to run.  Just because you have been in the program forever doesn't mean you know everything and traditions need to meet a quick and bloody death especially when these traditions hurt your relationship with a boy.

Need an example?  I am all too happy to share.

I met with a young man to approve his Eagle Project.  Like most boys in my Stake, this boy didn't have the 3 required signatures for his Eagle Project that I need to see before signing off on his project (another topic for another time).  This boy attends Scouts in the same building I do and so I asked him to go get the signatures required and I would in turn sign his project off that night.

Notice how there are no adults in this picture of Scouts doing an Eagle Project?  Normal Rockwell knew Scouting.

On the way out to meet with my Varsity Scouts, this boy's Mom stopped me and asked when my schedule would be clear to sign her son's project off.  I asked her why he wasn't able to get his signatures.  She told me that his new VARSITY COACH would not sign off on his project or even listen to him present the project because (deep breath Fishgutts, deep breath) his project wasn't in a binder and he didn't have any pictures even though he had a diagram of his project.  The mom told me her son was obviously upset but was very respectful of his Varsity Coach and basically said "OK" and then went and gave his mom his paperwork so he could go participate in his weekly meeting.

I grabbed his paperwork and restrained myself from swearing like a sailor while I ran to find the Chartering Organization Representative (hereafter called the COR - and in the LDS Church it is usually one of the Bishopric members) because the VARSITY COACH had left the building.  I found both Counselors of the Bishopric supervising their Troop putting out new hymnals in the Chapel.  I am friends with both.  I asked them why their VARSITY COACH (who was the ASM over the 11 year old Scouts for years until a short while ago) would not sign an Eagle Scout project over a binder and pictures.  Both shook their head and the COR said "This is normal when dealing with this person."  I asked why they would make such a man a Scout leader and I got no reply.  They had both been present during this exchange between the VARSITY COACH and the Varsity Scout and both told me they didn't like the way it was handled.  I told them that this is absolutely unacceptable and as a member of the Advancement Committee I can and will sign for this VARSITY COACH and I can and will cut him out of the whole process of Eagle Projects if need be.  Where in the paperwork does it require that a binder is required along with pictures?  No where.  Yes it is great and beautiful if it is in a binder and you do have pictures but I will be a monkey's uncle before I allow this "requirements" to be acceptable and boys turned away from getting project approval. 

So I went back to the mom and told her I would be signing the boy's Eagle Project for his Varsity Coach and if he has any issues he can call me.  And then I signed for the Varsity Coach.

Conclusion:  

When in life is ruining a relationship with a Scout worth having his paperwork in a binder with pictures?  This undermines your authority as a Scout leader.  Not even giving the boy the time of day doesn't help either.

So to all the parents, Scouts and Scouters out there - GET RID OF TRADITION, GET RID OF YOUR "REQUIREMENTS" AND GET RID OF EXPECTATIONS!  No boy deserves to have unforeseen requirements placed upon him especially when he doesn't know them.  Each road in Scouting is unique as each boy travels down much different roads.  Even if two boys earned the same merit badges and went on all the same campouts, they would learn much different things.  Your relationship with a Scout is worth more than holding on to your silly tradition.  I wish the phrase "Well that is how we have been doing it..........." could be forever removed from our minds.  Adults get out of the way of these boys and let them work the Scouting program!

There may be updates on this post as the Advancement Chair for the Advancement Committee totally back me up on this and I need to contact this Varsity Coach to educate him on the process.

Wood Badge Staff Development and the Temple

My wife and I have been attending the Temple after each of my Wood Badge Staff Development course for Wood Badge 107.  Most of these SD have been help extremely close to the Temple so I just meet my wife there for a date.  I also don't change my clothes into "Sunday best" but I wear my Scout uniform to the Temple.  We have now done this twice and I get some very interesting looks from members of the Church when they see a guy in a Scout uniform walking around.  I personally don't care what they think but Temple workers have asked me a ton of questions about Scouting and it has become an interesting conversation piece.

This past weekend I was sitting in the foyer of the Temple waiting for my sweet wife when a man approached me, called me by name, stuck out his hand for me to shake it and said "Fishgutts, I have 2 boys that I need to have you do Eagle Board of Reviews for."  I didn't recognize him but he introduced himself as a member of one of our close congregations.  He then told me we would call me and he proceeded to enter the Temple.  Within 60 seconds another man called me by name and told me the same exact thing telling me that he was from a different congregation and had one boy that needed me to do another Eagle Board of Review.

It was interesting.  I often wonder if members of our local congregations would recognize me out of my Scout uniform and these unique conversations have led me to believe that people just recognize me in Scout uniform.  I think this connection is awesome and I love it.  I hope that I am doing good in the area for the Scouting program and I am "leaving a legacy".

Your emergency is not MY emergency

As you probably remember I serve on the Advancement Committee for my District and I get a LOT of requests for Eagle Project approvals and Eagle Board of Reviews especially from the LDS units in my Stake.  This issue seems to be coming up a lot from some of their boys........

"I need my Eagle Board of Review yesterday because I have family coming in about a month and want to have my Eagle Court of Honor when they are here.  I need it fast and I need it NOW."

Look, if it is so important to have family there you should have planned to make sure all the paperwork was in order weeks ago.  I can't and won't bend the rules for you.  I won't break BSA/Council procedure for you.  I can't overlook reference letters or rush through things just to live by your schedule.

Part of the problem is most do not know the procedure and therefore want to do things the way "they have always been done".  It doesn't work like that.  Just because I am Mormon and you are Mormon doesn't give you a pass.  In fact, it upsets me that all of a sudden you act like it is so important but this is the first time I have personally heard from you to either schedule your Eagle Board of Review or to answer your questions.

I have begun telling boys (in front of Mom and Dad) that they CANNOT schedule their Eagle Court of Honor until they hear from National that their paperwork is complete.  There is no jumping the gun.

MTC Bound.........in the morning

When a boy says on Sunday "I am leaving for the MTC on Tuesday and I would like my Eagle Board of Review on Monday night." what do you say to the kid?  With a dedicated Scout leader (not me) and some promises from me to Council (basically selling my soul) to fast track paperwork, this kid had his Eagle Board of Review 7 hours before he left on a flight to the MTC.  His paperwork was a mess but this boys Scoutmaster (and not his Venturing Adviser) helped him fix most everything and got it ready to present to me and an Eagle Board of Review

Only in an LDS unit would something like this happen...............

Cut it close often???

Advancement Twitter

I just got an alert from @AdvBSA.  The tweets says:

SM signature needed for Scout to begin work with MB counselor.  SM signature NOT needed for Scout on his own to begin work on MB requirements.

This is going to cause some Scoutmasters, who are control freaks, to freak.  LOL!  Way to tell 'em BSA!!

You don't intimidate MY boss

This week has been a week of advancement nightmare.  I am embarrassed because this one is from my own unit.

A young man is on his second try on his Eagle Scout project.  First project was denied for lack of visible leadership in the project.  He didn't like that.

Second project:  When calling my boss to set up his appointment he called her by her first name and then told her one of his unit leaders said he could do that.  No, no, no, no, no, no, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Not in the South buddy!!!

Second project wasn't denied as he only brought the signature page of the Eagle Project paperwork to my boss to sign.  She told him she wouldn't sign it until she was able to look at his proposal.  He flipped and began to try to intimidate and manipulate her into signing the paperwork.  What he doesn't realize is my boss has a backbone.  And again (like my previous situation) the kicker, Mom started making excuses for the boy.  And I know personally that this boy's mentor (ex-SM) is doing a lot of the work for him.

My boss was upset that this boy showed no Scout Spirit in this process.  He wasn't very "helpful, friendly, courteous or kind".  I know we shouldn't expect these boys to be perfect and I don't think she does either but you don't flip out and you sure as heck doesn't try to manipulate someone to get what you want.  Not cool.

This is not a God-complex but you can get more things done with sugar than you can with vinegar (a lesson I must relearn at times - my mouth gets me in trouble).  A boys attitude will determine a lot.  I have plenty of boys who I know didn't read the paperwork come to me with pretty easy mistakes.

I don't think he realizes that my boss will be doing his Eagle Board of Review and this will probably (OK, it will definitely) come up at his Eagle Board of Review when it comes time to discuss his Scout Spirit.  You can be failed on Scout Spirit alone.

He text me after meeting with my boss asking if there was someone else who could sign off on his project.  I told him no.  (I don't sign off on my unit's Eagle Projects.  I am too close and sometimes people don't listen because they know me [i.e. this boy's first Eagle Scout Project]).

Boys who sign the following paragraph should know better.  This paragraph is a great way to hold these boys accountable for their actions or lack of them.

On my honor as a Scout, I have read this entire workbook, including the "Message to Scouts and Parents or Guardians" on page 4-4. I promise to be the leader of this project, and to do my best to carry it out for the maximum benefit to the religious institution, school, or community I have chosen as beneficiary. - Page 2-4 of Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook

I know I shouldn't take these things personally or as a reflection on myself but I do.  I have tried to help but my concerns have been ignored.   This kid is a good kid even though at times he doesn't act like it.  What teenager acts good all the time?  I have tried to mentor but................

He is meeting with her again tonight and hopefully (PLEASE!!!) he took last night as an opportunity to learn.

Doing the least you can

I read this article and know exactly why it has been written.  There are Troops out there that think they can rewrite advancement policy because they think they are above it.  Their rules are more important than "the" rules.

But what I wanted to comment on is the opposite of this.  Parents and boys who want to count something they did years ago for every single requirement on current work.  Don't get me wrong, I am all for counting stuff you have already done but lets not count every single thing we have done in the past towards our merit badge.  They want the most bang for the buck.  They want to do the least they can to get the most they can.  One experience shouldn't counts for 50 requirements for 50 merit badges.

Things I am tired of hearing...........

"I already did that."
"I have already done that 50 times."
"I did that."
"I am pretty sure I did that."
"I am sure I did that at some point."

If you can't remember it, remember when you did it,WHO you did it with or some kind of recollection of the time frame you did it, forget it.  I ain't passing it off.  And I would love for a boy to have some documentation (i.e. their Scout Book/merit badge book).

My replies.............

"When?  And with who?  What did you learn? Then it should be easy for you to do again."
"When?  And with who?  What did you learn? Then it should be REALLY easy for you to do."
"When?  And with who?  What did you learn?"
"I am pretty sure you might have to do it again."
"I am pretty sure you didn't."

It isn't going to kill a Scout to do something again when we learn from doing things over and over and over again.  A Scout doesn't learn fire making skills and then never use them again.  He doesn't learn how to use a compass and then never pick one up again.  He doesn't learn knots just to only use a square knot to tie everything.

It is more than just passing off requirements to say you have done it.  It is about learning and the journey.

Mormon Tiger Mom

I coined a phrase yesterday.  Mormon Tiger Mom.  We all know these types of parents but yesterday a set of parents took it to a new level I have NEVER seen before.

I set up 5 Eagle Board of Reviews for one unit.  I set three for one day and two for another a week apart.  I set them out about 3 weeks due to Mother's Day and the fact that they all need a little more time to get me their reference letters.  I was then asked by the Advancement Chair if the boys would then be allowed to have their Eagle Court of Honor the week after the last Board.  I told her no.  No way.  It takes National 4-6 weeks (worse case) to process the applications and no Eagle Court of Honor should be set up until you receive word from National that the applications have been processed and approved.  The Advancement Chair then tells me that one of the Moms has already set up the Court of Honor for the 5 boys for one week after her own son's Board of Review.

Once this information is relayed to the parents, they flip.  And I mean they literally flip out.  They call our District Executive (who is new and doesn't know a whole lot about the process because he doesn't play a role in the process).  The conversation with the DE sort of leaves the impression with the parents that I am personally running behind (this comes into play later) and I must be overwhelmed and have too many Board of Review to do.  They also get the impression that it only takes two weeks to process applications by National.

I called my boss, the Advancement Chair and gave her the scoop.  She called Mom.  In the mean time.....

Mom asks the Scout's Father (husband) to call me and offer to help me do Boards so I can speed up the Board of Review time.  He calls me and it basically goes over like a lead balloon.  He tells me that he understands I am behind.  I ask him what gives him that impression.  He tells me that I scheduled his son's Board out 2 - 3 weeks and they already scheduled the Court of Honor one week after that.  I told him that you should NEVER schedule the Court of Honor before the Board of Review (I didn't want to bring up the fact that their son might not pass - I felt like they might get the impression that I was going to be bias which I am not.)  I told him that his son still doesn't have all his reference letters and I can't perform his Board without them and I scheduled it out to give him time to make sure people get me their letters.

I told Dad that even if I had all the reference letters and did his Board tonight there was no way he would be approved by the pre-set date.  National's Eagle software was being updated this week and no Eagle Rank Applications were being processed so there is probably going to be a small back log.  After explaining the whole process all I hear is "Oh..................."  So by the end of my conversation he was thanking me for all the hard work I do and the time I put into Scouting and my dedicated work ethic.

The conversation of my boss had with Mom went over about the same as Dad.

But here is the Mormon Tiger Mom kicker.  After the conversation with my boss and Mom and my conversation with Dad, Mom asked the Advancement Chair to call us both and ask us to speed up the process due to the fact that 2 of the 5 boys would be leaving for missions or college and thus allowing her son to have their Eagle Court of Honor again on the predetermined date.  Her last text message to the Advancement Chair was "We need to have this Eagle Court of Honor on X date and we have to do whatever it takes to get it done by then."

I told the Advancement Chair to stop communicating with her and if there are any other questions to please forward them to me or my boss.  If they try to break the rules, tell them I won't allow it.  Tell them to personally call me.

When are parents going to learn that using short cuts in this process will only lessen the Eagle for their son?  I can only imagine if this is the way the parents are about Eagle, what other corners have they cut?  Personally I don't want to do this boy's Eagle Board of Review but I will do it and I will do it with professionalism.  I don't get paid for doing this but at times a paycheck might lessen the fact that sometimes you have to deal with this kind of silly and unnecessary situation.

If Scout and parents had planned better by learning the process ahead of time, this wouldn't even be an issue.

Advancement Changes via Tory

Tory over at Accidents and Adventures has an awesome outside the box thought on changes to Advancement   I am no fully opposed.  I think it kind of returns us to Baden-Powell Scouting.

Eagle Project #2

I have been shot gun contacted by a boy (some emails one month followed by some emails another month followed by some emails in a third month) in June 2012, August 2012 and September 2012 about approving his Eagle Scout Project.  He never could make any of the meeting I offered to sign his paperwork.  So this last week the fall out began when he asked for his Eagle Board of Review.

• His leaders told him to have me sign his project for approval after the project was completed.
• He had raised $6000 to buy dental equipment for a non profit to use in a foreign country.
• Created a program for dental education to be taken to the foreign country to be taught to children.

Only the boy started the actual project before getting my signature.  And completed the project before getting my signature.  And raised money for a group without my signature.  

So the boy must complete another project.

And the blame was placed at my feet because I am "hard to get a hold of" and "don't return emails" even though I have an email chain to prove that I returned every email and then I got no reply for months and weeks.  

So I guess what I have learned is that I need to be hound dog about approving these projects.  I am a bit concerned that in this situation the boy's responsibility has been removed except for having to do another project.  I guess that is enough of a punishment.

Advancement - Boy Lead

As a member of the District Advancement Committee, if a boy contacts me via email or phone to meet regarding approving his Eagle Scout Project and then mom and dad take over or I can hear them telling the boy what to say in the background, I wonder how much leadership they are going to show on their project.

Mom and Dad, step back.  It may be ugly but when a boy does it, it is supposed to be ugly.  I like it that way.  Boy lead and boy done doesn't mean it will be done right - it is supposed to be a learning process.  You don't have to feel pressure to impress me.

BOY LEAD!  BOY LEAD!!  BOY LEAD!!!

You decide

I met with a Varsity Scout this past Sunday about his advancement.  His guardians want him to become Eagle like their son but this boy doesn't seem all that interested.  The guardians state that the boy has been very active in his very out of my state Troop but when I requested the records, he is a Star Scout with 6 merit badges at age 15.  The guardians keep telling me that they are not going to give him a choice about becoming an Eagle at which point I shared with them Mike Rowe's Letter.  His male guardian has become his drill instructor in life and it hasn't been helping build bridges with the boy.  Hopefully this will show them that it really is up to the boy.  So I scheduled a sit down with everyone to talk.

In the talk we discussed that soon he will reach a time where he won't get to choose if he wants to be Eagle. Time will not work in his favor.  I presented a plan to him to earn Eagle by 18, told him I was there for him not only Scouting wise but also as his Church youth adviser and then I told him he had a week to think about it, pray about it and decide.  Then I clearly told his guardians by telling him that no one can force him to Eagle.  He must choose.  I told him either way I expect him to be active in Scouts because Scouting is fun and we have had a ton of fun lately.

This boy has a lot of challenges one of which is a brain tumor which he will be having surgery for soon.  Other includes parent drama that keeps nagging at him.  But the kid is a solid kid and a typical teenager.  Some have forgotten what teenagers are like.  I like him a lot.  He is the voice of a lot of "little men" in my group.  He sticks up for those who don't always want to share their voice.

Flags

What do you get a Scout that earns the rank of Eagle?

One mother suggested contacting your State Capital and getting a state flag flown over your respected capital.  I checked into the price for Texas and it is less than $20.  I was shocked.

She also suggested one flown over the US Capital.  A bit more expensive at about $30 but still relatively cheap.

I would love one of these after my service in Scouting but I think I am going to end up buying my own.  But that is alright.  My Dad has a US Flag flown over the USS Arizona.  I am thinking this might be a good Father's Day present as well especially if you dad served in the US military.

You worked on it without my signature?

Part of this issue was mine...............a boy emailed me his Eagle Project packet and I forgot about it.  7 weeks later he emailed me to ask for my signature.  He needed it because he was almost done with his project.  Oh brother.............

Scouts do what Scouts do - Scout Camp

This is a great article by The Scoutmaster's Minute.

Advancement is not the only focus of Scouting.  I wish more boys and parents understood this.  These are the best years of boy's lives!  They should have fun while learning!!!

What do Scouts do?

I 100% stole this from ScoutmasterCG.

Stop doing rank requirements.

by CLARKE GREEN on APRIL 15, 2012 in ADVANCEMENT,SCOUTMASTERSHIP

That’s right, stop doing requirements for ranks. Instead focus on doing the things Scouts do.

What do Scouts do?

Scouts go camping and while they are camping they-

• Cook the food that they selected, purchased and packed
• Light campfires
• Set up tents and tarps.
• Build things with sticks and string.
• Learn how to experience the natural world without leaving a trace.
• Use edge tools safely.

Scouts go swimming and boating and while they are swimming and boating they-

• Learn how to swim better
• Learn how to paddle a canoe or a rowboat
• Learn about safety in and on the water.
• Learn how to aid people in distress on or in the water.

Scouts are participating citizens, and as participating citizens they-

• Learn about their community and the way it is governed.
• Serve others in various ways.
• Learn how to responsibly use resources and technology.
• Act and react to others with decency and character.
• Learn about their nation it’s history and traditions.

Scouts go on hikes and when they go on hikes they-

• Read and follow maps.
• Use compasses and GPS units to guide themselves.
• Learn and practice safe hiking skills.

Scouts help other people and when they help other people they-

• Render first aid.
• Respond to emergencies.
• Support the needy.

I could go on but you get it by now, right? When Scouts do things Scouts do they advance as an after-effect. When Scouts ‘do requirements’ they check things off in a book.

Do what Scouts do.

I can't even begin to explain how much I support this idea especially in Varsity Scouting.  If boys are taking the lead of their program, they will flourish.  It won't always be pretty but it will work.  And boys will learn and grow.   On the other hand if you tell them what to do and create a "classroom" pass off this, pass off that situation, they get bored and don't want to be there.  Scouting is supposed to be scouting.

Eagle Project Almost Done

Dear Scout Leaders:

Scout W came to me last night to get approval for his Eagle Scout Project.  In discussions with him, he had already done a significant amount of work without all the proper signatures in place.  It is of great importance that all boys do no "start" their Eagle Project until they have all 4 signatures in place for their Eagle Scout Project.  Preliminary planning is OK.  Implementation of that plan is not.  Boys who start projects and do not get all the proper signatures could be forced to start over or do another project due to it not being a "good and approved" project.  Normally our District does not approve blood drives as most of the work is preformed by the blood collection company (per the Guide to Advancement).  The one and only thing that caused me to sign off on Scout W's project is that he has over 40 people signed up do give blood.  He even drafted me.  Please, please, please in the future make sure your Scouts do not start implementing or start their Eagle Scout Projects until all signatures are received.  This might be a good thing for parents to know as well.  I am pretty lenient when it comes to mistakes but other members of the Advancement Committee for the District may not be and I know all of us do not want a boy to have to do two Eagle Projects.

For future reference from the new Guide to Advancement:

9.0.2.7 “Proposal Must Be Approved … Before You Start”

From time to time Scouts will “jump the gun” and begin fundraising efforts—or even work on the project itself—before a proposal is approved. This is counter to the requirements and well covered in multiple documents, but still it happens. Normally then, a Scout should select a different project. If circumstances are compelling, however—indicating lenience can be extended and a lesson learned without significant detriment to fulfilling the project’s purpose—the Scout can be allowed to carry on and have his proposal or project approved after-the-fact.

Dear Ward Clerk

Dear Ward Clerk:

Can you please keep all the records of your ward in regards to the Scout Committee and Scout leadership in order in MLS so that when I call around our Stake with questons, I don't have to be passed from member to member trying to find the right person with the right calling?  It wastes my time.

The District Advancement Guy

Do Varsity Scouts Earn Eagle?

Sunday I ran into a funny situation.

As I was removing trash from the Church with my young men and Scouts, I walking into the closed kitchen at the Church to find a set of parents and one of my future boys talking about Varsity Scouting.  The mother was asking the boy "Do Varsity Scouts earn Eagle?  Is that when you normally earn Eagle?"  I starred at them quickly and moved on (mostly because I had Dr Pepper Pulled Pork cooking at home and I was STARVING plus instead of their kid helping clean the Church, the family were sitting around talking).  I thought it was funny that instead of asking the "Varsity Coach" they questioned their son.  (This caused me to wonder on the way home "How the heck long do I have to serve as the Varsity Coach before members of the Ward will know that I am the Varsity Coach?"  Apparently about 6 years isn't long enough......)

The Dad is an Assistant Scoutmaster who I got into a heated back-and-forth conversation about how he and his son camping at a family reunion this summer in Idaho doesn't fit the requirements of the 20 days and nights of camping.  He justified it by saying anything he does, he does it as the Assistant Scoutmaster.  This is an absolute ridiculous thought especially since he doesn't................well whatever.  He also has signed off on all of his son's advancement without the use of merit badge counselors.

On a related note, 3 of my Varsity Scouts have decided to work on their Eagle Scout Projects with no motivation from me.  I don't push projects and I don't push Scouting.  I push Varsity Scouting and fun.  If the boy wants his Eagle, I gladly meet with them, give them the paperwork, give them some ideas, explain the process to them and talk to them about the signatures they need.  I also discuss the fact that leadership is the primary key to success with their project.

So yes, Varsity Scouts earn their Eagle but they have to be the one to want it.  

New Varsity Scout

New Varsity Scout moves into our unit.  Isn't really excited about Scouts but he and I have a decent relationship already.  Side note: Each week at Church, the boys teach each other out of the Preach My Gospel manual in preparation for mission service.  This has been very successful especially in identifying those who have an easier time teaching whatever the topic might be.  This new Varsity Scout is excellent.  He teaches very well.

I contact great uncle and great aunt about his advancement records (he lives with them).  They send me to his old Scout leader.  That becomes problem #1.  Why don't they know where he is at?  Problem #2 is unit has no clue where he is at and doesn't have an advancement records for him.  SERIOUSLY???  They send me to the Council.  This alarms me because if the unit doesn't have records for the Scout, why the heck would the Council?

Most LDS Scouters and LDS Units suck eggs.  I know there are exceptions but those who suck those eggs make the rest of us look really, really, really bad.  I seriously can't believe they have NO record or anything to send to me to at least look like they know what they are doing.  So now not only does my own unit make things difficult on my by the lack of support of a Scout Committee but some unit half way around the US makes my job more difficult.